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Post by straf on Jul 16, 2011 22:12:21 GMT -5
WARNING: CONTROVERSY
For most of my life I have been slowly developing my musical tastes in hopes of reaching some sort of perfection, and for a lot of the time, I was able to listen to and think whatever I damn well pleased. If I were to say, "I like Rapeman", everyone would say "OK". If I were to say "I don't like Nickelback", everyone would say "OK". However, when it came to the Beatles, it seemed like only one opinion was ever allowed to be had (my most recent experience of this being here on this forum). If were to say "I don't like the Beatles", I would immediately be bombarded with hatred and insults and "reasons" why they were the Jesus of modern music. That's when I began to wonder if there was some sort of objectivity involved in musical taste (I have referenced my theories of objectivity before. Not here, but perhaps on LS or another forum completely) and that I was just being ignorant. Millions of fans couldn't be wrong, right? Actually, yes they could, a fact that I discovered after seeing tons of fans of AC/DC and Nickelback and Justin Bieber and the like. These experiences, though, still lead me to believe that objectivity exists, but this line of objectivity is obscured by peons and tools to be immediately obvious.
Which brings me to my next point: Beatle-obsessed fans act all alike. If you say anything remotely negative towards the band, shitstorms begin immediately and they all spout off the same ignorant responses that supposedly prove why the Beatles are the best. Fact is, none of those reasons are even provable or relevant. "They reinvented music!" they say. "They revolutionized music!" they say. "You wouldn't have music today if it weren't for them!" they say. So what do all of those "facts" have in common? They never elaborate. They never tell you exactly those things were achieved. This could be, of course, all be blamed on the general arrogance of Beatle fans (I found some great examples of arrogance just by skimming through the Vinyl Thread: "Gtfo, you small ignorant little child", "I take back what I have said, you may not like the greatest band of all time, but you have one the best 90s albums ever on vinyl, I respect that.", "So say they are overrated if you will, but everyone still knows that your opinion on The Beatles is stupid and also wrong."), but it's more likely that they never go in-depth because none of that shit actually happened. Sure, you can claim that all you want, but you will never be able to provide truth that these are true. Even if you can, it wouldn't support the original claim because they are all exaggerated to hell.
Now, let's be fair about this. I've probably already stirred up the biggest shitstorm imaginable. In fact, you've probably noticed that I haven't even posted why the Beatles should be discredited. There is a point to that, however, because can probably redeem Beatle fans in my eyes right before I make myself look worse in yours. Kindly explain to me why the Beatles are so absolutely great with valid reasoning and I will kindly explain to you my reasoning. As long as you hold out, so will I. This could, perhaps, clear things up in some odd un-beneficial way.
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Post by JesusSilencio on Jul 16, 2011 22:40:36 GMT -5
I was waiting for you or someone else to make this thread. I'm exited  . Even if I'm going against you here, I'm glad that you're standing up to the popular opinion. The Beatles do sometimes get more credit than they deserve, as there were other bands from that era doing great stuff. Which brings me to my next point: Beatle-obsessed fans act all alike. If you say anything remotely negative towards the band, shitstorms begin immediately and they all spout off the same ignorant responses that supposedly prove why the Beatles are the best. Not true. Beatles fans do tend to be a little overly defensive, but all say the same stuff? Regardless, this is just ad hom. How Beatles fans act has nothing to do with whether the Beatles were good/influential or not. Many bands/artists list The Beatles as influences. I would say more than any other band, but I'm not 100% on that. Just from stuff that I personally know, Ringo Starr popularized match grip for rock; before that, rock drummers almost always used traditional grip. To say that The Beatles weren't influential is ludicrous. I'm not even much of a Beatles fan, but I at least respect what they did. More ad hom. You have never, ever seen anyone go more in depth? Here's a yahoo answer to it. That took me 2 minutes to find, and you could probably find more. I'm not the one to explain, but the example I gave above seemed pretty good. |
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Post by straf on Jul 16, 2011 22:49:14 GMT -5
I probably should have said "every Beatle fan that I've encountered". My bad.
Also, I didn't say that they weren't influential. They were. They weren't, however, influential to the degree that most people state.
This was a quick, unsatisfactory reply, but I'm pressed for time. Elaboration to come.
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Post by SMAP on Jul 16, 2011 23:06:50 GMT -5
Thank you so much for this thread.
Buttkissing any band is just a bad idea. Then again, I only do that for one band (The Mountain Goats <3)
Every artist has had their flaws, regardless of how enjoyable they are. I was actually never aware of how bad The Beatles fanbase could be until visiting The Beatles: Rock Band board on RockBand.com, when I was almost turned off completely on the band due to multiple ridiculous claims.
You're definitely too harsh on them though, bringing them down the likes of AC/DC
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Post by fishy on Jul 16, 2011 23:13:36 GMT -5
I'm being nice, here. I just want this thread to be as calm and nice as possible.
Pieces of Interest
As stated Ringo had a very unique drumming style.
Also stated very many people have sited the Beatles as a major inspiration even bands and artists like Run DMC and Eminem have sited the Beatles as very influential.
George Harrison was one of the first to use a sitar, or any eastern instruments for that matter, in pop music.
Eight Days a Week was the first songs to feature a fade-in.
Helter Skelter was one of the heaviest songs around at the time.
That's just a short list as well.
Like I said, I want to keep discussion here as civil as possible.
EDIT:Also what SMAP said, however, TBRB was the most bearable of the RB Forums.
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Post by SMAP on Jul 16, 2011 23:17:10 GMT -5
Agreed with you until Helter Skelter.
One of the heaviest to have any kind of success however, which definitely is a big influence.
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Post by Fatalfriend on Jul 16, 2011 23:17:52 GMT -5
Well, all I can say is basically what everyone else said, a huge amount of bands and artists of many genres has listed The Beatles as an influence. Hell I will admit though, I give them more praise than they deserve. I am very opinionated, so the reason why I probably say they're the best, is because they are the best TO ME. It's no secret that all the Beatles praise is very opinionated, but I will only say one thing that may cause an argument. There's no way The Beatles can be brought down to Justin Bieber level.
EDIT: I just realized all those quotes from the vinyl thread was from me. I am such a prick.
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Post by Wave57 on Jul 17, 2011 2:59:06 GMT -5
Random list of stuff. -An extreme amount of hits (extreme). -First to bring the Sitar into popular music -April of 1964 they had 5 songs in the top 5 of the billboard top 100 -First to use backwards vocals -Yesterday is the most covered song of all time -“Helter Skelter” and “I Want You (She’s So Heavy)” are "considered" two of the first heavy metal songs -They wrote almost every song the played (outside of covers) -First pop band to use an arena Now granted they were the first to make a lot of stuff popular but does that make them good? No, net necessarily. But then we can look at the music....... I'll start with the singing. First word. Harmonies. These guys had voices that harmonized with each other extremely well and the wrote awesome harmonies too. Examples www.youtube.com/watch?v=iC6D2N4nylgwww.youtube.com/watch?v=2-koCbqWnUAwww.youtube.com/watch?v=dWlLPJG9Cvg (This one for sure) www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsDFxmbjZ7I (This is their best use of harmonies in my opinion.) Also Paperback Writer. Other than that John Lennon has a good vocal range and Paul McCartney can hit some pretty high notes. Drums.... Ringo gets so much flak but really, he shouldn't. Ringo's drum beats and fills for every song are so unique and personal that you could listen to the song with nothing but the drums and easily recognize it. The End's drum solo is awesome and is a very fun solo to air drum. Ringo is also rock steady. Bass...... Paul is a beast. He sings and plays bass at the same time (something that is pretty hard to do). Yes others do it, but it is still something to note. His bass lines are also very good (Drive my Car, Taxman, Hey Bulldog, I Saw Her Standing There, Helter Skelter) Guitar...... John is an average rythm guitarist, nothing too special there. George is a great lead player and has some awesome solos. Yes, I am aware he does not 'shred" it up 1,000 miles an hour. He never plays to little notes, or too much. (I Saw Her Standing There, Revolution, Come Together, The End) He also created other good riffs and shit. Like Day Tipper for example. --------------------------------------------------------------- And yes I'm not getting mad or anything, lol. It is your opinion and you are entitled to it. Question who do /you/ think is the best band of all time? |
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Post by SMAP on Jul 17, 2011 9:30:48 GMT -5
I mostly agree with Wave except Paul even admitted he stole the bassline of I Saw Her Standing There from Chuck Berry's I'm Talking About You.
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Post by fishy on Jul 17, 2011 10:41:59 GMT -5
I love how no one has mentioned the songwriting genius of Lennon/McCartney
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Post by Zilla2112 on Jul 17, 2011 11:34:54 GMT -5
I'm very interested to see where this thread goes.
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Post by JesusSilencio on Jul 17, 2011 12:02:50 GMT -5
I probably should have said "every Beatle fan that I've encountered". My bad. Also, I didn't say that they weren't influential. They were. They weren't, however, influential to the degree that most people state. Well, if that's how every Beatles fan you've encountered acted, I can understand why you think what you do. And yeah, I wasn't trying to imply you didn't think they were influential at all, sorry about that. Agreed with you until Helter Skelter. One of the heaviest to have any kind of success however, which definitely is a big influence. I feel like stuff by the Stones or even the Who were probably heavier and close to as popular, but I can't think of any specific examples. Drums.... Ringo gets so much flak but really, he shouldn't. Ringo's drum beats and fills for every song are so unique and personal that you could listen to the song with nothing but the drums and easily recognize it. The End's drum solo is awesome and is a very fun solo to air drum. Ringo is also rock steady. Yes, any drummer worth anything considers Ringo to be a very good drummer. Mainly because he was very good at the most important job for a drummer: keeping a consistent tempo and being consistent in general (incidentally, this is why I'm only a mediocre drummer; I'm not very consistent). He didn't do a lot of solos or flashy fills because it wouldn't really fit the music. In other words, he knew his place, and even though it was backseat to the rest of the band, he filled it better than just about any other drummer could. He also had a unique style due to being left handed but playing right handed. I love how no one has mentioned the songwriting genius of Lennon/McCartney Even though even I would agree on that, songwriting is very subjective. You could say that they had a lot of hits though, and that their music was very diverse. |
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Post by JoeSaintsFan on Jul 17, 2011 12:15:04 GMT -5
A lot of good examples have already been said, but another thing is, a few of us have only suggested you don't say stuff like that often, I mean, we understand what you've been saying, but that doesn't mean we have to like it. or for that matter, agree with it. We like having you here, but some people just don't like hearing someone saying something they like is bad. Thank you.
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Post by SMAP on Jul 17, 2011 13:04:11 GMT -5
but some people just don't like hearing someone saying something they like is bad. Thank you. Welcome to internet. |
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Post by Soup567 on Jul 17, 2011 13:23:39 GMT -5
I never seen you say anything as simple as "I don't like The Beatles." From what I've seen the comments you made about them mostly while you've been here have looked like you are purposely trying to inflame and irritate others, saying something like oooh I don't know... "Fucking Sgt. Pepper." That's not a simple, "I don't care for it." Maybe you've been met with negativity because you're trying to conjure up resentment to prove a point for yourself.
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